What is your woods load?

[magnum0710]

What do you carry in the woods/outdoors and what load or ammo are you using? I'm in NE Ohio so we have quite a bit of black bear sightings, it's a slight concern but definitely not the main concern. Stray dogs and coyotes are my main concerns.

I normally carry my Ruger Speed Six in 357 magnum, my woods load is a hard cast (16-18 bhn) 158 grain SWC with 13.5 grains Accurate #9 and a small magnum primer. I pretty much have to load my own to get the load I want. All of the hard cast 357 factory options are 180 and 200 grain, and they're loaded hot! Those are true bear loads capable of thwarting a grizzly attack. For my neck of the woods a full power 158 makes much more sense. The problem is no one makes a full power 158 hard cast 357, the Underwood and Buffalo Bore 38+p Outdoorsman loads are close but more of a 38/44 load. I figure a 158 running at 1200 fps or so from a 3 inch barrel should be able to thwart a black bear in the small chance of an attack but not be overkill for smaller threats. My revolver also has fixed sights so that's another point in favor of 158s.

ETA: I forgot to mention, my woods load used to be 9.5 grains HS6 with the same bullet. I switched because I was able to get #9 for less and I knew it would get better velocity than HS6.

 

[forrestr]

What hard cast bullet are you using?

 

[magnum0710]

What hard cast bullet are you using?

Right now the 357 powder coated grooveless from Missouri Bullets, I also use the 158s from T&B Bullets but theirs still have the lube groove. Summit City's were good too but they've been out of stock for a while now. I'm thinking about trying the 170 grain Keith bullet from Matt's Bullets next, I think theirs drop at 178.

 

[forrestr]

Groove less are fantastic when it comes to getting the highest velocities from any load. More specifically, the slower burning powders.

I'm a huge fan of the 170's in the short bbl'd 357mags. Impressive what they can punch thru or penetrate.

 

[magnum0710]

Groove less are fantastic when it comes to getting the highest velocities from any load. More specifically, the slower burning powders.

I'm a huge fan of the 170's in the short bbl'd 357mags. Impressive what they can punch thru or penetrate.

I like the grooveless because the OAL is the same but they take up less space in the case. It's barely shorter than the standard 158s but theoretically not being as deep in the case should lower pressure somewhat. I never thought about wether it'd give higher velocities or not, although I've heard powder coated bullets in general will produce higher velocities than traditionally lubed bullets.

Unfortunately I don't have a chronograph, but I did find a way to measure projectile speed by recording audio of the shot. It may not be exact but should give me a general idea of where my loads are at.

I really want to try the 170s, I've just been putting it off cause very few commercial casters make it. Rim Rock is way over priced, Matt's is good but I'd have to have them substitute alloy for sure. I'll probably try 100 and go from there.

 

[forrestr]

Casting my own 170's is a huge plus.

A couple years ago I was board and decided to swage some jacketed bullets in the same weight range. Ended up with these thumpers.

 

[Driswalds]

In the woods I'm much more worried about 2 legged threats and dogs.
I will have 125 grain in my .357 mag.

 

[forrestr]

IMHO:
125gr bullets in a 357mag are useless. There's been tons of issues with them over the years in different firearms along with different powders. Simply put, their brutal on the equipment.

I can understand them in a 38spl perhaps???

 

[Driswalds]

I have been reloading and shooting them for the past 40 years without issue.
I don't shoot them in my Pythons but my Ruger's and S&W eat them up just fine.

 

[forrestr]

That's nice.
I simply don't believe in turning a perfectly good 357mag into a glorified 9mm. Along with the flame cutting that occurs from the slow burning powders/lite bullet combo that happens with using 125gr bullets in the 357mags.

I don't blame you for not using them in a older python. They'll turn it into a paperweight in short order.

 

[Driswalds]

I'm sure you would disapprove of me loading 180s in my .44 and 240s in my 454 as well.

 

[forrestr]

Don't take it personal, don't matter one way or the other. At the end of the day you must not shoot a lot of those 125's in your magnums or you'd be singing a different toon.

As far as light bullets in the 44mag/44spl's go, I'm sure I haven't shot/tested anywhere near as many different bullets as you have. I did test a couple in a snubnosed 44spl and a 4" bbl'd s&w 29. Tried these hp's in both revolvers, they ranged from 165gr to 180gr depending on the hp size/shape.

Also tried these different wc's/hbwc that ranged in weight from 165gr to 245gr.

Last batch I tested in the snubnosed 44spl.

I carry a snubnosed 44spl quite a bit and prefer that top left bullet pictured above. It's a 210gr hollow based hollow pointed swc. The WW FBI 38spl load used a 158gr hollow based hollow pointed swc pictured below.

Buffalo bore has an extremely hot 158gr hollow point swc that does 1000fps in the snubnosed 38spl's. I decided to use the best of both workds in a snubnosed 44spl. A 210gr hollow based hollow pointed swc doing +/- 1000fps.

Anyway, by all means use what you want. Personally, I found better choices for the short bbl'd revolvers than a 125gr bullet.

 

[magnum0710]

I'm not a fan of the 125s, there are some extremely good 140 and 158 grain defense loads this day and age that make the 125s obsolete. That said the main issue with the 125s was the S&W K frame having a relief cut on the barrel shank. I recently came to the conclusion that yes the 125s are definitely harder on the gun but there were other factors at play with the K frames.

I believe with the K frames it was a perfect storm situation, in the early 70s S&W moved the gas ring from the cylinder face to the yoke requiring more material be removed from the barrel shank. Around that same time the hot 125s and 110s were becoming popular, then police started to practice with their duty ammo rather than target loads and the hot 125s were very popular with LE. I also think handloading may have contributed to the issues, Speer #8 came out in the early 70s. Most people won't even quote loads from Speer #8 because they're that dangerous, some of the start loads are way above todays max loads. Pressure testing wasn't as precise as it is today, loads that were considered safe back then we know today are over pressure. God only knows how many K frames were subjected to these loads. I do think the K frame forcing cone thing is blown out of proportion but that's a whole other topic.

That said I stay away from the 125s, I don't see a reason to put more wear and tear on my guns than needed. The 154 grain Federal HST will smoke any 125 when it comes to performance, the 158 and 140 grain XTP performs about the same as the 125 version, the 158 Remington SJHP will get the same expansion as the 125 version with better penetration. Even though the old school SJHP 125s were known as manstoppers I've seen multiple tests where they under penetrated. Today's 125s are likely just fine, SAAMI lowered the specs for 357 in the 90s. I'm just not a fan of them personally, a good 158 will handle anything on 2 legs and most things on 4 legs. A 125 might handle 2 leg threats but it's not a good choice for a woods load. I'd rather prepare for both scenarios with a 158 over hoping and praying a 125 will be enough in the event I get caught between a black bear and her cubs. We just had another bear sighting here in town over the weekend, second time in the last month.

I will say I do like some of the 125 grain 38+p loads, the Winchester and Remington 125 SJHP in 38+p are both very good loads.